970 Performance FX-9000 & RAM incompatibility

WKjun wrote: Hello!   I'm used to the FX-9000 series and use Noctua NH-D14/15 coolers without problems on Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 motherboards. I always use AMD Radeon RAM 2133 and 2400(@2133 AMP profile, CMD 1T).   Sadly I have two problems with my 970 Performance board. First, at default(!) settings the FX-9590 straines the board so hard that mine began to burn! I have a picture of the chip (not uploaded until needed) which sits between the ATX12V plug and the screw of the CPU socket, which got so hot that the system shut down and damaged the CPU as well. To make it clear, CPU cooling itself was flawlessly applied and the CPU never reached 60° under any circumstances! Second, AMD Radeon RAM seems to have a compatibility issue although the RAM controller is inside the CPU, works on the Sabertooth, and is listed in the QVL.   The history:   I bought the 970 Performance in March. After some time it got more and more unstable. Fist just freezes at idle and sometimes at GTA V and Dota 2. Then sudden bluescreens and even more often game crashes. Then, in July, it shutted off and no way to turn it on again (cut power for some time, etc.). Then I've discovered a burned chip besides the CPU! I switched it through RMA / the store where I bought it. Then, after receiving a new board (it states Made in Vietnam now instead of China, strange), I discovered that the CPU has been damaged as well (just running fans without getting a POST screen or any further reaction) and returned that one too.   After RMA:   I have updated to the latest BIOS, even though it states just M2 compatibility improvement. Then I have looked deeper into the BIOS settings and found that the "CPU Voltage Offset" was at "+50mV" by default! This is insane and useless while using a FX-9590 which has already a very high voltage to reach 5 GHz turbo! I'm not going to overclock it and now I find a power wasting setting and maybe the reason why my first board began to burn.   To check the uselessness I have used prime95 for a short period of time and HWmonitor to see what temperature the VRM gets. Besides the hopelessly overstrained heatsink even at default settings, here are the results:   +0mV (manual): VRM 85-90° | CPU ~55° +50mV (default): 90-95° | CPU <=60° +100mV (manual): >100° (would have gone beyond that if not interrupted at that point) | CPU >60° +150mV (not tested...)   At +50mV and reaching 90-95° VRM for some seconds, the board begins to make noise around the VRM, like sizzeling! It stops doing that after quitting prime95. At +0mV this never happend and there were no stability issues at prime or Windows itself. So why set +50mV by default?!   This board is obviously wrong configured and not suitable to be used with a FX-9000 processor in my opinion! Mind that my Define R4 case is open on both sides - all case fans running though - I can imagine what happend inside the closed case.   The RAM incompatiblity is the next thing. QVL states, it is supported (CPU and RAM both AMD brand anyway) and it works on a Sabertooth that does not have it on QVL... The system is only stable when I set fully Auto without AMP and that results in 800 MHz... if I set 1866 or 2133 MHz, prime is not stable for longer than some minutes. Switching to the black slots instead of the red ones, didn't help. Further, SPD readout inside the BIOS is wrong for some values (tRFC 1 instead of ~300).   So what I am going to do? I am not willing to experiment with undervolting to get a trustworthy system and buy some other RAM kits that might work!? My store would hardly let me switch to a Sabertooth instead and return it in used condition...   Any help is appreciated, hopefully a BIOS update that fixes these issues!

If you look at the CPU Support list for the 970 Performance, you'll see this warning for all of the FX-8000 and FX-9000 series processors:

For cooling the CPU and its surrounding components, please install a CPU cooler with a top-down blowing design.

That means a CPU cooler that has a fan pushing air down onto the board, so air flows over the VRM heat sink and VRMs. A Noctua CPU cooler of that type is this model:

http://www.noctua.at/inc/imageviewer.php?item=111&pnr=0

Your Noctua cooler is a great CPU cooler, I use one myself, but it is not a "top-down blowing" design. It would be very hard to find a top-down blowing type CPU cooler that cooled a CPU as good as your Noctua NH-D14/15 does.

You know what the problem is, over heating of the VRM chips. Also, the use of an eight phase VRM design must have extra good cooling of the VRM heat sink to control any over heating. A 12 phase VRM design will operate cooler than an eight phase design, but still needs air moving across the VRM heat sink when using FX-9000 series processors. The sizzling you heard was probably the heat sink pad used between the VRM chips and the heat sink, or the thermal paste if that was used.

Your board and almost every AMD board needs CPU VRM cooling when using a FX-9000 series CPU. Randomly mounted case fans are generally not enough. The top, rear fan mounting location found on most PC cases should have a fan blowing air into the PC case, close to the VRMs. The case must have fans on the top pulling air out of the case. Somehow mounting a fan to push air over the VRM heat sink is required IMO. Video cards that exhaust air into the PC case will make cooling the VRMs and the CPU more difficult.

About the CPU Voltage Offset of 50mv, was that using a built in CPU over clock option, or just the default BIOS settings for the FX-9590? Either way, that CPU Voltage Offset might have been chosen so any and all FX-9590 processors would be able to work at 5GHz, since all processors are not the same.

About the RAM compatibility situation, the Memory Support list for your board has this warning:

When overclocking, some AMD CPU models may not support DDR3 1600 MHz or higher frequency DIMMs.

Did the Sabertooth board run your memory above 1600?

One thing I think we should remember (admit?) is the FX-9000 series processors need more power from a mother board to run at 5GHz than anyone realized. I think mother board manufactures were surprised by this, and discovered that some of their boards they thought would work fine with the FX-9000 series processors, were not good enough to supply to them all the power they need. I've heard that some AMD boards are getting BIOS updates that won't let them boot if an FX-9000 series processor is used in the board!

That is how bad the situation is with these processors has become. AMD's "most everything is compatible" designs have reached a hard limit with FX-9000 series processors, and for some low end board, that includes the FX-8000 series processors too IMO.

I don't know if your board will get a BIOS update to fix the issues you had with the memory, or to change the default CPU Voltage Offset default value.



Edited by parsec - 06 Oct 2015 at 11:32am

Yesterday I've tried another RAM kit:

I don't know exactly why your memory will not run above 1333 on the ASRock board, except for the warning in the Memory Support list:

When overclocking, some AMD CPU models may not support DDR3 1600 MHz or higher frequency DIMMs.

Yes I know you said your memory worked on the SaberTooth board. There are BIOS settings that are not available to users that might be making the difference. Were the memory controller voltages the same as the SaberTooth on the 970 Performance? Or memory voltage?

The VRM option on the SaberTooth is an Asus only option, not a standard option that is common to all AMD 970 boards.

I use a Noctua DH-14 socket 2011 version, and it's not that great for VRM cooling.

Different boards are... different. So is their price.

Edited by WKjun - 25 Aug 2015 at 6:13pm

To close this matter unsuccessful:

Edited by WKjun - 15 Jan 2016 at 10:23pm