Booting From Samsung SM951 SSD (NVMe Version)

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   I found this resource, but it sounds like an extremely complicated work around.  I also don't have a Windows 8 copy to boot from.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/750_SSD_1.2_TB/3.html

Our ASRock motherboard has full UEFI and NVMe support yet I could not 
install Windows 7 on the 750 Series SSD. Intel does provide an 
install-time driver, which does list the drive during Windows 
installation, but Windows kept insisting that the drive can not be used 
to boot from, and installation wouldn't continue. The same issue occured
 when the Windows 7 installer was started from within Windows.

So...looks as though Windows 7 users are out of luck? Not exactly. I 
spent a couple days with this problem and figured out a complicated fix,
 but it does work. You basically want the Windows 8 bootmanager and UEFI
 loader partition on the drive, which then loads the Windows 7 EFI 
kernel loader.

Install Windows 7 on a separate HDD/SSD, boot into it 
and install the Intel NVMe driver. Put that disk away for the moment and
 have the NVMe SSD as nothing more than a storage device.

Boot off the Windows 8 install USB stick.

Create one big partition spanning the whole drive, minus 100 
GB. This big partition will be where Windows 7 will end up. Now, create a
 second partition with the 100 GB, which will be used as an installation
 target for Windows 8.

You should also see the UEFI partition and system-restore partition at this point. Leave those alone.

Go through with the Windows 8 installation and boot from Windows 8.

Shut down and install the SSD that has Windows 7 on it.

Format that big partition you made earlier and copy all files 
from the Windows 7 drive onto it. Windows Explorer won't work, but 
Robocopy works, so you can also clone the whole partition (not the whole
 disk), using an imaging tool.

Now, download Visual BCD Editor and add a Windows 7 loader to the "Loaders" section.

In Visual BCD Editor, set ApplicationDevice and BootDevice to the correct partition, probably D:.

Change ApplicationPath to "\windows\system32\winload.efi". The efi at the end is the important part.

Save and reboot, but keep the Windows 7 SSD installed.

Windows will boot now, but it will boot from the D: partition and not C:.

Fix the issue by using regedit to go to 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices and swap the entries for 
\DosDevices\C: and \DosDevices\D: (just rename the key names).

Power off and remove the Windows 7 SSD. Done!

You can now delete the Windows 8 partition and expand the Windows 7 partition to use the space.

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Badmojo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 24 Oct 2015 Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote Badmojo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Booting From Samsung SM951 SSD (NVMe Version) Posted: 24 Oct 2015 at 11:51pm
	I found this resource, but it sounds like an extremely complicated work around. I also don't have a Windows 8 copy to boot from. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/750_SSD_1.2_TB/3.html Our ASRock motherboard has full UEFI and NVMe support yet I could not install Windows 7 on the 750 Series SSD. Intel does provide an install-time driver, which does list the drive during Windows installation, but Windows kept insisting that the drive can not be used to boot from, and installation wouldn't continue. The same issue occured when the Windows 7 installer was started from within Windows. So...looks as though Windows 7 users are out of luck? Not exactly. I spent a couple days with this problem and figured out a complicated fix, but it does work. You basically want the Windows 8 bootmanager and UEFI loader partition on the drive, which then loads the Windows 7 EFI kernel loader. Install Windows 7 on a separate HDD/SSD, boot into it and install the Intel NVMe driver. Put that disk away for the moment and have the NVMe SSD as nothing more than a storage device. Boot off the Windows 8 install USB stick. Create one big partition spanning the whole drive, minus 100 GB. This big partition will be where Windows 7 will end up. Now, create a second partition with the 100 GB, which will be used as an installation target for Windows 8. You should also see the UEFI partition and system-restore partition at this point. Leave those alone. Go through with the Windows 8 installation and boot from Windows 8. Shut down and install the SSD that has Windows 7 on it. Format that big partition you made earlier and copy all files from the Windows 7 drive onto it. Windows Explorer won't work, but Robocopy works, so you can also clone the whole partition (not the whole disk), using an imaging tool. Now, download Visual BCD Editor and add a Windows 7 loader to the "Loaders" section. In Visual BCD Editor, set ApplicationDevice and BootDevice to the correct partition, probably D:. Change ApplicationPath to "\windows\system32\winload.efi". The efi at the end is the important part. Save and reboot, but keep the Windows 7 SSD installed. Windows will boot now, but it will boot from the D: partition and not C:. Fix the issue by using regedit to go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices and swap the entries for \DosDevices\C: and \DosDevices\D: (just rename the key names). Power off and remove the Windows 7 SSD. Done! You can now delete the Windows 8 partition and expand the Windows 7 partition to use the space.

Badmojo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 24 Oct 2015 Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote Badmojo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Oct 2015 at 11:45pm
	This is an extremely helpful thread (which there are very few on the internet). I'm starting to research the same build, but am interested if the experts here could answer 1 deviation: Does a Windows 7 build have any additional complications or issues that must be resolved?

Dan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 28 Sep 2015 Location: Virginia USA Status: Offline Points: 122	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 2:30am
	Parsed, In Device Manager, I have an open item titled PCI Simple Communications Controller. I'd prefer not to enable this feature. I believe the ASRock motherboard drivers CD has software called Intel Management Engine to enable this feature. I understand this feature allows network administrators to manage computers from a central location. As a home user, I see no need to enable this feature. I looked in the UEFI/BIOS, but i couldn't find anything to disable it. I'm not sure what I'm looking for, however. Do you have any advice on how I can eliminate this open item in my Device Manager, apart from installing the Intel Management Engine from the motherboard drivers CD? Dan

Dan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 28 Sep 2015 Location: Virginia USA Status: Offline Points: 122	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 5:57pm
	parsec and all, My new system is working great. Along with all the other all new and current technology hardware components, I purchased a Sapphire Nitro Radeon R9-380 4GB video card from Newegg. The card is UEFI compatible. I play games, so this card is good for being able to handle most games available today, at an affordable price ($214). Top of the line cards can cost from around $500-$1,000! Go figure. Some of my other system hardware items are as follows: ASRock Z170 Gaming-ITX/ac motherboard Intel Core i7-6700K Skylake processor Silverstone Fortress Z FTZ01B Mini-ITX case Silverstone SOD02B slim slot load CD/DVD RW optical drive Micron 16GB DDR4 RAM Silverstone 450 Watt power supply, designed for above case (yes, big enough) Arctic Cooling Alpine 11 Pro 92mm CPU cooler Windows 10 64 bit operating system I like small cases, and the above case is amazing in that one can fit a full size video card in that case. Designers must have taken a long time coming up with that configuration. Take a look at that case. It fits on top of my computer desk with the monitor sitting on it. Perfect! No need for a big case anymore. Dan

parsec Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 04 May 2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 4996	Post Options Post Reply Quote parsec Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 1:10pm
	Great, glad it all worked well for you! I would hardly call you a lemming. Some things are just... true. There is no down side to a UEFI booting Windows installation... if you let the Windows installer format the OS drive. The installer, when formatting the target OS drive to use the EFI boot loader with a GPT partitioning type, will also include a hidden standard MBR partition. That will allow you to boot with CSM Enabled if you choose to do so. One warning for you Dan, your video source must be GOP compatible when CSM is Disabled. Older video cards may not have that capability (Nvidia 600 series cards and earlier, I don't know about AMD/ATI.) Ironically, the Intel integrated graphics has been GOP compatible since the Sandy Bridge processor generation, given the appropriate VBIOS in the mother board's UEFI/BIOS. Ok... one downside, potentially the video source. ASRock has insured that since at least the Intel 7 series boards. I'm glad to hear you were able to use the Win 10 installation disk with CSM disabled. I've heard from others that Win 8/8.1 had issues installing from a disk in UEFI mode. Meaning no UEFI entry in the boot list for the optical drive. Win 7 won't install in UEFI mode without a fix, the EFI boot loader is in the wrong folder and the installation program won't find it. What a strange bug MS has with the Win 7 installation disks.


Dan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 28 Sep 2015 Location: Virginia USA Status: Offline Points: 122	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Oct 2015 at 6:48pm
	parsec and All, All the components for my new build arrived, and I finished putting it together. When completed, it worked on the first boot! I entered UEFI/BIOS and changed a few items, including disabling CSM. I noted that parsec talked about disabling that on another post to ensure system will run in UEFI mode, so I followed suit like a lemming. Hehe. I then saved, exited and restarted. I then pressed F11 to bring up the boot options menu, in accordance with screen prompt. I selected the boot option for UEFI with Windows 10 system disc in the CD/DVD Drive. The computer booted from the Windows 10 disc and installed Windows 10 on my Samsung SM951 M.2 NVMe SSD drive in UEFI mode with no issues. I'm now configuring Windows 10 the way I like it. This takes time, including downloading and installing all the Windows 10 updates. One can sure spend an inordinate amount of time fiddling with these things. Even so, I like messing around with computers. Dan

Dan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 28 Sep 2015 Location: Virginia USA Status: Offline Points: 122	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Sep 2015 at 6:32am
	I have some additional information to relate. As I wrote previously, I purchased a Samsung SM951 M.2 (NVMe version) 256GB SSD as part of a new build. Since I was unfamiliar with this new technology, I did some Internet research to educate myself. Among other issues, I was confused by vendors describing these drives as PCIe devices. The SM951 I bought plugs into a M.2 connector on the motherboard, not into a PCIe slot. So, why do they call these PCIe devices anyway? First, for background, I would like to point out that the UEFI/BIOS in my new ASRock Z170 motherboard contains storage type options only for IDE or SATA or RAID. So, just what type storage device is my SM951 NVMe SSD? I know it's not IDE, meaning it must be SATA or RAID, according to the UEFI/BIOS in my motherboard. What? The following comments briefly summarize what I learned in my research, to shed some light on the subject. I invite reader comments to clarify any misunderstandings I may have garnered. I learned that the current PCIe storage devices are enabled by vendor implementation of the latest SATA Express standard. This standard supports both regular SATA storage devices and PCIe SSD storage devices, including the NVMe type. The SATAe standard requires these storage devices to use the PCIe lanes, rather than the SATA bus to increase storage speeds. Because the current SATAe standard requires they use PCIe lanes, they are called PCIe devices. I think that's it in a nutshell. This scenario likely explains why the UEFI/BIOS in my motherboard offers only IDE, SATA, or RAID options for storage device types. My SM951 M.2 NVMe SSD will be seen by the system as a SATA device. RAID being just another type of SATA implementation. Choosing either SATA or RAID in the UEFI/BIOS, and installing the operating system in UEFI mode, should enable the installation process to automatically configure any SM951 SSD to function correctly. Is this a fairly accurate description of the way this situation stands at the present time, leaving out most of the technical jargon and details? As a lay person, I don't need all the voluminous and gory specifications that I saw on the Internet. Ha! Dan

parsec Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 04 May 2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 4996	Post Options Post Reply Quote parsec Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 2015 at 2:12pm
	The sharing of resources on your board (really the Intel chipset) is the same with any M.2 PCIe SSD, AHCI or NVMe. A SATA III M.2 SSD (they exist) used in the M.2 port would not use all of the available lanes, but I doubt those lanes would be available for other drives. The same goes for PCIe SSDs that use an x2 interface. Just think of these SSDs as another drive connected to the IO resources that are available, which is exactly what is happening! They use more resources per drive than a SATA drive does, which is not the board's fault, we selected these SSDs so who is to blame? Actually, the Z170 chipset boards have more and better resources than the Z97 chipset boards do. The Z97 boards used the PCIe 3.0 lanes provided by the CPU for PCIe SSDs. The Z97 chipset only has PCIe 2.0 resources, but the Z170 and PCIe 3.0 resources. With Z170, we can have our PCIe SSDs and multiple video cards at the same time. You can use a PCIe slot to M.2 adapter board to use the CPU's PCIe 3.0 resources and not use the chipset resources. The support for M.2 SSDs has improved with Z170 boards, there are no other boards that have more... yet. The board or chipset does not have an NVMe controller, that is in the NVMe SSD itself. The manual does not go into the depth it could regarding PCIe SSD usage. There are reasons for that I can understand. The support for PCIe SSDs is really provided by the Intel chipset and IRST driver and Option ROM software. It took me several paragraphs to describe one new option in the UEFI related to PCIe SSDs, whose behavior could change with a driver update. That is why manuals only contain things that will not change, but makes life for users more difficult. Consider this a learning experience, rather than a cookbook PC build. As my professor used to say, do you want to be a cookbook Chemist, or really understand what is happening? I want to KNOW!!


Dan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 28 Sep 2015 Location: Virginia USA Status: Offline Points: 122	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 2015 at 2:48am
	OK, parsec, I gotcha. I think I can make this build work properly, or you can call me shorty. Yeah, lack of information is the problem, all right. This situation leaves the consumer up in the air having to figure it out by himself, somehow. Good thing we have the Internet. What a great source for research. I did notice when I took a look at the online user manual for my motherboard that certain SATA ports are disabled when the M.2 port is populated. It wasn't clear to me whether this is the case with both the AHCI M.2 version and the NVMe M.2 version. The user manual only addressed the AHCI version. You're saying this is the case for both, even with the NVMe SSD running with the NVMe controller? I can see that both must share the SATA lanes. I suppose this is a correct conclusion? We need separate lanes for this technology. Sharing is a problem. I've been wrong before. Ha! Keep up the good work. We need people with information. Dan

parsec Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 04 May 2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 4996	Post Options Post Reply Quote parsec Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Sep 2015 at 12:44am
	I understand your thoughts about the SATA mode, or perhaps more accurately the Storage mode would be more correct. Since we now literally have multiple types of drives in our PCs (SATA, PCIe of AHCI and NVMe, and M.2 of SATA, PCIe AHCI and NVMe types) a single storage mode no longer exists. Somehow all of these types had to be accommodated at once, and the hardware manufactures have done a good job of that IMO, within the existing storage technology we use. I must say how that is done has not been explained very well (if at all), but at least it works. I'm sure all this will evolve over time, possibly with separate settings for different interface types. When you think about it as you and I have, it becomes confusing mainly due to the apparent lack of information. There is not much to consider when using SATA drives with a PCIe NVMe drive. Using RAID mode with single, non RAID SATA drives is no problem at all, since they are treated simply as drives in AHCI mode. The Z170 chipset shares its internal resources between the M.2 ports and SATA ports. So when a SSD is connected to an M.2 port, two of the Intel SATA ports on the board will no longer be available. Check the manual to learn which SATA ports are not available when the M.2 port is in use. In case you don't know, when installing Windows it is always best to have no other drives connected to the PC besides the target OS drive. Otherwise Windows will put the boot partition on a drive other than the OS drive. A strange thing but it will happen. Removing that other drive will cause the PC to not boot. That can be fixed with the installation media, but why not just do it right the first time.