Asrock Fatal1ty X99X Killer SSD SSATA_? Issue

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Hi, 
I'm the "other poster with X99X Killer SATA challenges"...

Opening Intel's X99 chipset webpage shows the following from the block diagram:

a) CPU to Discrete Graphics: "Up to 40 lanes" (only 28 lanes for Core i7-5820K)
b) X99 to PICe 2.0: Up to 5Gb/s x1 bi-directional
c) X99 to 10 xSATA 3.0 Ports: Up to 6Gb/s (asterisk note states "all SATA ports capable of 6Gb/s")

NOTE THE USAGE OF THE WORDS "UP TO" IN THE SPECS...

Under "Features and Benefits" Intel's site contradicts the above as follows:

Feature: Serial ATA (SATA) 6 Gb/s
Benefit: Next generation high-speed storage interface supporting up tp 6Gb/s transfer rates with up to six SATA ports (Note reference 6)
Note 6: Actual number of ports available may vary by system configuration. Please consult your system vendor for more information.

This last Note 6 comment implies that ports 7-10 not offered as standard by Intel but implemented by mobo manufacturer...

Intel's website is not an easy site from which to extract detail, so checked out Wikipedia which has the following to say regarding SATA implementation in the X99 chipset:

Two Serial ATA (SATA) 3.0 controllers are integrated into the X99 chipset, providing a total of up to ten ports for storage devices and supporting speeds of up to 6 Gbit/s per port, with hardware support for the Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI) logical interface. Each SATA port may be enabled or disabled as needed. Six SATA ports provided by the first controller may be configured for Rapid Storage Technology (RST) 13.1, which supports RAID 0, 1, 5 and 10 levels; additionally, Smart Response Technology (SRT) disk caching allows the creation of hybrid volumes

SATA Express and M.2 are also supported, providing the ability for interfacing with PCI Express-based storage devices. Each of the X99's SATA Express ports requires two PCI Express 2.0 lanes provided by the chipset, while the M.2 slots can use either two 2.0 lanes from the chipset itself, or up to four 3.0 lanes taken directly from the processor. As a result, the X99 provides bandwidths of up to 3.94 GB/s for connected PCI Express storage devices.^[

^{So, if Wikipedia entry can be believed, Intel HAVE implemented two SATA controllers within the X99 chipset, one - with 6 ports - being RAID capable; the other - with 4 ports - lacking support for RAID; but both groups offering AHCI mode at 6gb/s per port.}

^{Unfortunately, this does not come anywhere near explaining the problems we're experiencing with bandwidth when using the second 4-port S-SATA controller...}

^Dave

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DevillEars Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 09 Jul 2015 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 52	Post Options Post Reply Quote DevillEars Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jul 2015 at 11:15pm
	Hi, I'm the "other poster with X99X Killer SATA challenges"... Opening Intel's X99 chipset webpage shows the following from the block diagram: a) CPU to Discrete Graphics: "Up to 40 lanes" (only 28 lanes for Core i7-5820K) b) X99 to PICe 2.0: Up to 5Gb/s x1 bi-directional c) X99 to 10 xSATA 3.0 Ports: Up to 6Gb/s (asterisk note states "all SATA ports capable of 6Gb/s") NOTE THE USAGE OF THE WORDS "UP TO" IN THE SPECS... Under "Features and Benefits" Intel's site contradicts the above as follows: Feature: Serial ATA (SATA) 6 Gb/s Benefit: Next generation high-speed storage interface supporting up tp 6Gb/s transfer rates with up to six SATA ports (Note reference 6) Note 6: Actual number of ports available may vary by system configuration. Please consult your system vendor for more information. This last Note 6 comment implies that ports 7-10 not offered as standard by Intel but implemented by mobo manufacturer... Intel's website is not an easy site from which to extract detail, so checked out Wikipedia which has the following to say regarding SATA implementation in the X99 chipset: Two Serial ATA (SATA) 3.0 controllers are integrated into the X99 chipset, providing a total of up to ten ports for storage devices and supporting speeds of up to 6 Gbit/s per port, with hardware support for the Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI) logical interface. Each SATA port may be enabled or disabled as needed. Six SATA ports provided by the first controller may be configured for Rapid Storage Technology (RST) 13.1, which supports RAID 0, 1, 5 and 10 levels; additionally, Smart Response Technology (SRT) disk caching allows the creation of hybrid volumes SATA Express and M.2 are also supported, providing the ability for interfacing with PCI Express-based storage devices. Each of the X99's SATA Express ports requires two PCI Express 2.0 lanes provided by the chipset, while the M.2 slots can use either two 2.0 lanes from the chipset itself, or up to four 3.0 lanes taken directly from the processor. As a result, the X99 provides bandwidths of up to 3.94 GB/s for connected PCI Express storage devices.^[ ^{So, if Wikipedia entry can be believed, Intel HAVE implemented two SATA controllers within the X99 chipset, one - with 6 ports - being RAID capable; the other - with 4 ports - lacking support for RAID; but both groups offering AHCI mode at 6gb/s per port.} ^{Unfortunately, this does not come anywhere near explaining the problems we're experiencing with bandwidth when using the second 4-port S-SATA controller...} ^Dave
	If music be the love of food, eat on

Xaltar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 16 May 2015 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 24518	Post Options Post Reply Quote Xaltar Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jul 2015 at 11:18pm
	Thanks for the info Dave, that is very useful to know.

odiebugs Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 07 Jul 2015 Status: Offline Points: 193	Post Options Post Reply Quote odiebugs Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jul 2015 at 11:22pm
	Thanks Dave: Glad you popped over into this thread and posted this info, real nice of you.
	asrocking

DevillEars Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 09 Jul 2015 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 52	Post Options Post Reply Quote DevillEars Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jul 2015 at 11:43pm
	One thought... The X99 capabilities need to be considered in conjunction with the partnering CPU: Scenario 1: X99 + Core i7-5820K (limitation of only 28 PCIe 3.0 lanes) Scenario 2: X99 + Core i7-59xxK (support for 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes) There may well be some - unpublished - constraints with regard to X99 capabilities when used with the 28-lane i7-5820K. The constraint may well lie in the DMI interface between CPU and X99 and dictated by Intel's CPU implementation... Guessing time...
	If music be the love of food, eat on

DevillEars Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 09 Jul 2015 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 52	Post Options Post Reply Quote DevillEars Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jul 2015 at 12:11am
	Some further "web-digging" elicited the following from an Intel Haswell-E review by AnandTech: X99 will also support 10 SATA 6 Gbps ports from the chipset. This is a rather odd addition, because only six of those ports will be RAID capable. Most motherboards will list which ones are specifically for RAID, but this dichotomy makes me believe that the chipset might use a SATA hub on die in order to extend the number of possible ports. If the reviewer at AnandTech is correct, this would explain the problems experienced with SSD usage on these ports as the hub will, effectively, function as a "multiplexer" to extend the number of connector ports while keeping the interface lane-count constant. Dividing the fixed lane bandwidth by more connector ports will see bandwidth degradation - particularly when data is being moved between multiple drives attached to the same SATA hub. Also, contention may also be the reason for some of the SSD tests failing due to timing issues? My suggestion to the OP: If you want to run your disks as explained, ignore the S_SATA ports and install an Intel 8-port 8x PCIe 3.0 RAID card which will provide the full bandwidth capability of a PCIe 3.0 lane for each port (The more I think about this, the more convinced I become that it is the solution for me as well...) Dave Edited by DevillEars - 24 Jul 2015 at 12:21am
	If music be the love of food, eat on

parsec Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 04 May 2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 4996	Post Options Post Reply Quote parsec Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jul 2015 at 1:04am
	I'll need to check the datasheet of the X99 chipset to learn how the four secondary (my terminology) SATA III ports are implemented. Intel has always provisioned the PCIe lanes used for the SATA ports from those provided by the board's chipset. Those have always been PCIe 2.0 lanes. The PCIe 3.0 lanes are used exclusively for the video card slots, and now for PCIe SSDs. I'll be testing the SSATA ports on a SSD to check the performance, and will report back soon.

odiebugs Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 07 Jul 2015 Status: Offline Points: 193	Post Options Post Reply Quote odiebugs Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jul 2015 at 1:29am
	Even though the chipset has the 10 sata , from what I see, these four posts have the same bandwidth as the 6 intel with RAID. Honestly I can't figure if the 28 lanes were maxed out, if this has any affect on the 2.0 on the chip to become burdened. I also noticed that Intel has removed the Enterprise RAID from the X99 and dosn't have ROM switch like the X79 had. Now there's only RST and no RSTe. Not sure if I can find if the UEFI has injected another AHCI in it for the other ports or if because there's still RAID on the six if the UEFI has a separate software firmware. It's taking the X79 and X99 UEFI and seeing the changes to the UEFI. So it could be added code in the original one for the extra four. There are massive changes to the UEFI files inside the X99, I can't even find the Sata Driver or the CMScore. I wonder if Parsec can use the RST AHCI driver to switch over the four posts to show as storage devices to see what devise ID they have or what they have for it with windows driver. Edited by odiebugs - 24 Jul 2015 at 1:40am
	asrocking